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 99 Fall albums, A simple list
Stephen
Posted: May 26 2005, 10:12 AM


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So far:

01: 1979a – Live At The Witch Trials
02: 1979b – Dragnet

03: 1980a – Totale's Turns (It's Now or Never) [live 1979 & 1980]
04: 1980b – Grotesque (After The Gramme)
05: 1981a – Slates [mini-album]
06: 1981b – Early Years 77-79
07: 1982a – Legendary Chaos Tape a.k.a. Live At Acklam Hall, London 1980 [11/12/80]
08: 1982b – Hex Enduction Hour
09: 1982c – A Part Of America Therein, 1981 [live]
10: 1982d – Room To Live (Undilutable Slang Truth)
11: 1983a – Fall In A Hole [2CD] [live 21/08/82]
12: 1983b – Perverted By Language
13: 1984a – The Wonderful & Frightening World Of The Fall
14: 1985a – Hip Priest And Kamerads
15: 1985b – This Nation's Saving Grace
16: 1986a – Nord-West Gas
17: 1986b – Bend Sinister
18: 1987a – In: Palace Of Swords Reversed
19: 1988a – The Frenz Experiment
20: 1988b – I Am Kurious Oranj
21: 1989a – Seminal Live [half studio/half live]

22: 1990a – Extricate
23: 1990b – 45 8489 A Sides
24: 1990c – 45 8489 B Sides [2CD]
25: 1991a – Shift-Work
26: 1992a – Code: Selfish
27: 1993a – The Collection
28: 1993b – The Infotainment Scan
29: 1993c – BBC Radio 1 ‘Live In Concert’ [25/05/87]
30: 1994a – Middle Class Revolt
31: 1995a – Cerebral Caustic
32: 1995b – The Twenty-Seven Points [2CD] [live]
33: 1996a – Sinister Waltz
34: 1996b – Fiend With A Violin
35: 1996c – Oswald Defence Lawyer
36: 1996d – The Light User Syndrome
37: 1997a – In The City... [live 20-22/03/95]
38: 1997b – Archive Series
39: 1997c – The Less You Look, The More You Find
40: 1997d – 15 Ways To Leave Your Man [live 26/06/96]
41: 1997e – Levitate
42: 1997f – Oxymoron
43: 1997g – Cheetham Hill
44: 1998a – Smile…It's The Best Of The Fall
45: 1998b – Live To Air In Melbourne '82 [2CD] [02/08/82]
46: 1998c – Northern Attitude
47: 1998d – The Post-Nearly Man [Mark E. Smith]
48: 1998e – Live Various Years [93, 97, 98]
49: 1998f – Nottingham '92 [live 15/03/92]
50: 1999a – The Peel Sessions
51: 1999b – The Marshall Suite

52: 2000a – Live 1977 [23/12/77]
53: 2000b – A Past Gone Mad
54: 2000c – I Am As Pure As Oranj [live 17/08/88]
55: 2000d – Psychic Dancehall [3CD]
56: 2000e – Live In Cambridge 1988 [19/03/88]
57: 2000f – The Unutterable
58: 2001a – Austurbaejarbio Reykjavik May 6 1983 [live]
59: 2001b – Backdrop
60: 2001c – A World Bewitched [2CD]
61: 2001d – Liverpool 78 [live 22/08/78]
62: 2001e – Live In Zagreb [15/04/90]
63: 2001f – Are You Are Missing Winner
64: 2002a – 2G + 2 [live 11/01]
65: 2002b – Totally Wired: The Rough Trade Anthology [2CD]
66: 2002c – Pander! Panda! Panzer! [Mark E. Smith]
67: 2002d – High Tension Line [2CD]
68: 2002e – Listening In: Lost Singles Tracks 1990-92
69: 2002f – Early Singles
70: 2003a – It's The New Thing!: The Step Forward Years
71: 2003b – Words Of Expectation: BBC Sessions [2CD]
72: 2003c – Touch Senstive...Bootleg Box Set [5CD] [live 2001]
73: 2003d – The Idiot Joy Show [2CD] [live 1995/1996] (also available as two separate LPs/CDs, The Idiot Joy Show and Pearl City)
74: 2003e – The Rough Trade Singles Collection [vinyl-only]
75: 2003f – Live At The Phoenix Festival [1995/1996]
76: 2003g – The War Against Intelligence: The Fontana Years
77: 2003h – The Real New Fall LP (Formerly ‘Country On The Click’)
78: 2003i – Rebellious Jukebox [2CD plus DVD]
79: 2004a – 50,000 Fall Fans Can't Be Wrong
80: 2004b – Interim
81: 2005a – The Complete Peel Sessions 1978-2004
82: 2005b – Live At Deeply Vale [22/07/78]
83: 2005c – Live From the Vaults: Oldham 1978 [21/08/78]
84: 2005d – Live From the Vaults: Retford 1979 [16/11/79]
85: 2005e – Live From the Vaults: Los Angeles 1979 [14/12/79]
86: 2005f – Fall Heads Roll
87: 2005g – Live From the Vaults: Glasgow 1981
88: 2005h – Live From the Vaults: Hof Alter Banhoff 1981
89: 2006a – The Permanent Years (Paranoia Man In Cheap Sh*t Room)
90: 2007a – Live At The Knitting Factory, New York, 9 April 2004
91: 2007b – Live At The Garage, London, 20 April 2002
92: 2007c – Reformation Post TLC
93: 2007d – Live At The Knitting Factory, LA, 14 November 2001
94: 2007e – Live At The ATP Festival, 28 April 2002
95: 2007f – Box Set 1976–2007
96: 2008a – Imperial Wax Solvent
97: 2008b – I Never Felt Better in My Life: 1979–1982
98: 2009a – Last Night At The Palais: Live at Hammersmith Palais April 1st 2007 [CD and DVD]
99: 2009b – Rebellious Jukebox, Volume 2

***

Von Südenfed and Smith/Blaney releases are not included. However, The Post Nearly Man and Pander! Panda! Panzer! are included because they include Fall music and lyrics.


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Big Chief Mango Chutney XIV
Posted: May 26 2005, 10:15 AM


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How many of them do you own Stephen? smile.gif

Bet you own more than me (I own precisely half of them). cry.gif


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Martin
Posted: May 26 2005, 10:20 AM


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I've got 75 or so of these...won't buy now any compilations unless they have tracks I don't have...

but there's a lot more unreleased stuff which I do have...


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Martin
Posted: May 26 2005, 10:24 AM


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I don't see the point of owning Archive Series...nor any old Peel stuff, though I won't get rid of mine...nostalgia and it looks good on the shelf.


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A.N. OTHER
Posted: May 26 2005, 10:24 AM


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how many of them are cash in comps?

i dont count them.
and some of those live ones.

anyway, heres childish's one:

BILLY CHILDISH’S L.P. DISOGRAPHY
Greatest Hits (1979) The Pop Rivets
Empty Sounds From Anarchy Ranch (1979) The Pop Rivets
Talkin' Bout…Milkshakes (1981) The Milkshakes
14 Rhythm and Beat Greats (1983) The Milkshakes
After School Sessions (1983) The Milkshakes
The Milkshakes IV-The Men With Golden Guitars (1983) The Milkshakes
Sing and Play 20 Rock and Roll Hits of the 50's and 60's (1984) The Milkshakes
The Milkshakes In Germany (1984) The Milkshakes
Nothing Can Stop These Men (1984) The Milkshakes
Showcase (1984) The Milkshakes
They Came They Saw They Conquered (1984) Thee Milkshakes
Thee Knights of Trashe (1984) Thee Milkshakes
Thee Mighty Caesars (1985) Thee Mighty Caesars
Dangerous Charms (1985) The Del Monas
Beware the Ideas of the March (1985) Thee Mighty Caesars
The Delmonas 5 (1986) The Del Monas
Thee Caesars of Trash (1986) Thee Mighty Caesars
Acropolis Now (1986) Thee Mighty Caesars
107 Tapes (1986) The Milkshakes
(Early demos/Live)
Live In Rome (1986) Thee Mighty Caesars
Wiseblood (1987) The Mighty Caesars
The Milkshakes Revenge -The Legendary Missing 9th Album (1987) The Milkshakes
Fun In The U.K (1987) The Pop Rivets
(U.S. Comp)
I've Got Everything Indeed (1987) Wild Billy Childish
Don't Give Any Dinner to Henry Chinaski (1987) Thee Mighty Caesars
Which Dead Donkey Daddy? (1987) Billy Childish & Sexton Ming
Punk Rock Showcase (1987) Thee Mighty Caesars
(Comp)
Laughing Gravy (1987) Wild Billy Childish & Big Russ Wilkins
Plump Prizes & Little Gems (1987) Billy Childish & Sexton Ming
The 1982 Cassettes (1988) Wild Billy Childish
Live In Chatham (1988) Thee Milkshakes
YPRES 1917 Overture (Verdun Ossuary) (1988) Billy Childish & Sexton Ming
I Remember (1988) Wild Billy Childish
Poems of Laughter and Violence (1988) Billy Childish
Brimful of Hate (1988) Jack Ketch & the Crowmen
Play: Capt'n Calypo's Hoodoo Party (1988) Wild Billy Childish & the Blackhands
Do the Uncle Willy (1988) The Del Monas
Thusly, Thee Mighty Caesars, English Punk Rock Explosion (1988) Thee Mighty Caesars
(U.S. Comp)
The Delmonas (1989) The Delmonas
John Lennon's Corpse Revisited (1989) Thee Mighty Caesars
Headcoats Down! (1989) Thee Headcoats
Long Legged Baby (1989) Wild Billy Childish & the Natural Born Lovers
Surely They Were the Sons of God (1989) Thee Mighty Caesars
(U.S. Comp)
19th Nervous Shakedown (1990) The Milkshakes
(Comp)
The Kid's Are Square-This Is Hip! (1990) Thee Headcoats
The Earls of Suavdom (1990) Thee Headcoats
Beach Bums Must Die (1990) Thee Headcoats
Live In Germany '79 (1990) The Pop Rivets
Heavens to Murgatroyd, Even! It’s Thee Headcoats! (Already) (1990) Thee Headcoats
50 Albums Great (1991) Wild Billy Childish
Girlsville (1991) Thee Headcoatees
W.O.A.H! Bo In Thee Garage (1991) Thee Headcoats
Headcoatitude (1991) Thee Headcoats
I Am the Billy Childish (1991) Various
(Comp)
The Sudden Fart of Laughter (1992) Billy Childish
Der Henkermann-Kitchen Recordings (1992) Billy Childish
The Original Chatham Jack (1992) Billy Childish & the Blackhands
Have Love Will Travel (1992) Thee Headcoatees
Caesars Remains (1992) Thee Mighty Caesars
(Comp)
The Wurst is Yet to Come (1993) Thee Headcoats
The Good Times Are Killing Me (1993) Thee Headcoats
Cavern by the Sea (1993) Thee Headcoats
Torments Nest (1993) Billy Childish
Live In the Netherlands (1993) Wild Billy Childish & the Blackhands
Native American Sampler - A History 1983-1993 (1993) Various
(Comp)
At the Bridge (1993) Billy Childish featuring The Singing Loins
Hunger at the Moon (1993) Billy Childish
Caesars Pleasure (1994) Thee Mighty Caesars
(CD Comp)
Live at the Wild Western Room (1994) Thee Headcoats
Connundrum (1994) Thee Headcoats
Ballad of Insolent Pup (1994) Thee Headcoatees
The Sounds of the Baskervilles (1995) Thee Headcoats featuring Thee Headcoatees
In Tweed We Trust (1996) Thee Headcoats
Deerstalking Men (1996) Thee Headcoats Sect
Knights of the Baskervilles (1996) Thee Headcoats
Made With a Passion - Kitchen Demo's (1996) Billy Childish
Bostik Haze (1997) Thee Headcoatees
Chathams Burning - Live 77 & 78 Demo's (1997) The Pop Rivets
Punk Girls (1997) Thee Headcoatees
The Jimmy Reid Experience (1997) Thee Headcoats
Devil in the Flesh (1998) Billy Childish/Dan Melchior
The Messerschmits Pilots Severed Hand (1998) Thee Headcoats
Sherlock Holmes Meets the Punkenstien Monster (1998) Thee Headcoats
(Japanese Compilation Album)
Brother is Dead…but fly is gone! (1998) Thee Headcoats
Here I Am I Always Am (1998) Kyra
17% Hendrix Was Not the Only Musician (1998) Billy Childish & His Famous Headcoats
Taylor Meets Thee Headcoatees (1998) Thee Headcoatees
Crimes Against Music-Blues Recordings 1986-1999 (1999) Wild Billy Childish
(Compilation Album)
The Cheeky Cheese (1999) Billy Childish & Sexton Ming
English Gentlemen of Rock‘N’Roll/the Best Vol.2 (1999) Thee Headcoats
(Japanese Compilation Album)
Here Comes The Cessation (1999) Thee Headcoatees
The Sisters of Suave (1999) Thee Headcoatees
(Compilation Album)
In Blood (1999) Billy Childish & Holly Golightly
Ready Sect Go! (2000) Thee Headcoats Sect
I Am the Object of Your Desire (2000) Wild Billy Childish & His Famous Headcoats
Elementary Headcoats - Thee Singles 1990-1999 (2000) Thee Headcoats
(Compilation Album)
Live at the Dirty Water Club (2001) Thee Headcoats
This is This (2001) The Buff Medway’s
Steady the Buffs (2002) Wild Billy Childish & The Buff Medway’s
25 Years Of Being Childish (2002) Various
(Compilation Album)
Here Come the Fleece Geese (2002) Billy Childish & Sexton Ming
1914 (2003) Wild Billy Childish & The Buff Medway’s
Medway Wheelers (2005) Wild Billy Childish & The Buff Medway’s
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thefrenzexperiment
Posted: May 26 2005, 10:30 AM


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QUOTE (A.N. OTHER @ May 26 2005, 10:24 AM)
BILLY CHILDISH’S L.P. DISOGRAPHY
Greatest Hits (1979) The Pop Rivets
Empty Sounds From Anarchy Ranch (1979) The Pop Rivets
Talkin' Bout…Milkshakes (1981) The Milkshakes
14 Rhythm and Beat Greats (1983) The Milkshakes
After School Sessions (1983) The Milkshakes
The Milkshakes IV-The Men With Golden Guitars (1983) The Milkshakes
Sing and Play 20 Rock and Roll Hits of the 50's and 60's (1984) The Milkshakes
The Milkshakes In Germany (1984) The Milkshakes
Nothing Can Stop These Men (1984) The Milkshakes
Showcase (1984) The Milkshakes
They Came They Saw They Conquered (1984) Thee Milkshakes
Thee Knights of Trashe (1984) Thee Milkshakes
Thee Mighty Caesars (1985) Thee Mighty Caesars
Dangerous Charms (1985) The Del Monas
Beware the Ideas of the March (1985) Thee Mighty Caesars
The Delmonas 5 (1986) The Del Monas
Thee Caesars of Trash (1986) Thee Mighty Caesars
Acropolis Now (1986) Thee Mighty Caesars
107 Tapes (1986) The Milkshakes
(Early demos/Live)
Live In Rome (1986) Thee Mighty Caesars
Wiseblood (1987) The Mighty Caesars
The Milkshakes Revenge -The Legendary Missing 9th Album (1987) The Milkshakes
Fun In The U.K (1987) The Pop Rivets
(U.S. Comp)
I've Got Everything Indeed (1987) Wild Billy Childish
Don't Give Any Dinner to Henry Chinaski (1987) Thee Mighty Caesars
Which Dead Donkey Daddy? (1987) Billy Childish & Sexton Ming
Punk Rock Showcase (1987) Thee Mighty Caesars
(Comp)
Laughing Gravy (1987) Wild Billy Childish & Big Russ Wilkins
Plump Prizes & Little Gems (1987) Billy Childish & Sexton Ming
The 1982 Cassettes (1988) Wild Billy Childish
Live In Chatham (1988) Thee Milkshakes
YPRES 1917 Overture (Verdun Ossuary) (1988) Billy Childish & Sexton Ming
I Remember (1988) Wild Billy Childish
Poems of Laughter and Violence (1988) Billy Childish
Brimful of Hate (1988) Jack Ketch & the Crowmen
Play: Capt'n Calypo's Hoodoo Party (1988) Wild Billy Childish & the Blackhands
Do the Uncle Willy (1988) The Del Monas
Thusly, Thee Mighty Caesars, English Punk Rock Explosion (1988) Thee Mighty Caesars
(U.S. Comp)
The Delmonas (1989) The Delmonas
John Lennon's Corpse Revisited (1989) Thee Mighty Caesars
Headcoats Down! (1989) Thee Headcoats
Long Legged Baby (1989) Wild Billy Childish & the Natural Born Lovers
Surely They Were the Sons of God (1989) Thee Mighty Caesars
(U.S. Comp)
19th Nervous Shakedown (1990) The Milkshakes
(Comp)
The Kid's Are Square-This Is Hip! (1990) Thee Headcoats
The Earls of Suavdom (1990) Thee Headcoats
Beach Bums Must Die (1990) Thee Headcoats
Live In Germany '79 (1990) The Pop Rivets
Heavens to Murgatroyd, Even! It’s Thee Headcoats! (Already) (1990) Thee Headcoats
50 Albums Great (1991) Wild Billy Childish
Girlsville (1991) Thee Headcoatees
W.O.A.H! Bo In Thee Garage (1991) Thee Headcoats
Headcoatitude (1991) Thee Headcoats
I Am the Billy Childish (1991) Various
(Comp)
The Sudden Fart of Laughter (1992) Billy Childish
Der Henkermann-Kitchen Recordings (1992) Billy Childish
The Original Chatham Jack (1992) Billy Childish & the Blackhands
Have Love Will Travel (1992) Thee Headcoatees
Caesars Remains (1992) Thee Mighty Caesars
(Comp)
The Wurst is Yet to Come (1993) Thee Headcoats
The Good Times Are Killing Me (1993) Thee Headcoats
Cavern by the Sea (1993) Thee Headcoats
Torments Nest (1993) Billy Childish
Live In the Netherlands (1993) Wild Billy Childish & the Blackhands
Native American Sampler - A History 1983-1993 (1993) Various
(Comp)
At the Bridge (1993) Billy Childish featuring The Singing Loins
Hunger at the Moon (1993) Billy Childish
Caesars Pleasure (1994) Thee Mighty Caesars
(CD Comp)
Live at the Wild Western Room (1994) Thee Headcoats
Connundrum (1994) Thee Headcoats
Ballad of Insolent Pup (1994) Thee Headcoatees
The Sounds of the Baskervilles (1995) Thee Headcoats featuring Thee Headcoatees
In Tweed We Trust (1996) Thee Headcoats
Deerstalking Men (1996) Thee Headcoats Sect
Knights of the Baskervilles (1996) Thee Headcoats
Made With a Passion - Kitchen Demo's (1996) Billy Childish
Bostik Haze (1997) Thee Headcoatees
Chathams Burning - Live 77 & 78 Demo's (1997) The Pop Rivets
Punk Girls (1997) Thee Headcoatees
The Jimmy Reid Experience (1997) Thee Headcoats
Devil in the Flesh (1998) Billy Childish/Dan Melchior
The Messerschmits Pilots Severed Hand (1998) Thee Headcoats
Sherlock Holmes Meets the Punkenstien Monster (1998) Thee Headcoats
(Japanese Compilation Album)
Brother is Dead…but fly is gone! (1998) Thee Headcoats
Here I Am I Always Am (1998) Kyra
17% Hendrix Was Not the Only Musician (1998) Billy Childish & His Famous Headcoats
Taylor Meets Thee Headcoatees (1998) Thee Headcoatees
Crimes Against Music-Blues Recordings 1986-1999 (1999) Wild Billy Childish
(Compilation Album)
The Cheeky Cheese (1999) Billy Childish & Sexton Ming
English Gentlemen of Rock‘N’Roll/the Best Vol.2 (1999) Thee Headcoats
(Japanese Compilation Album)
Here Comes The Cessation (1999) Thee Headcoatees
The Sisters of Suave (1999) Thee Headcoatees
(Compilation Album)
In Blood (1999) Billy Childish & Holly Golightly
Ready Sect Go! (2000) Thee Headcoats Sect
I Am the Object of Your Desire (2000) Wild Billy Childish & His Famous Headcoats
Elementary Headcoats - Thee Singles 1990-1999 (2000) Thee Headcoats
(Compilation Album)
Live at the Dirty Water Club (2001) Thee Headcoats
This is This (2001) The Buff Medway’s
Steady the Buffs (2002) Wild Billy Childish & The Buff Medway’s
25 Years Of Being Childish (2002) Various
(Compilation Album)
Here Come the Fleece Geese (2002) Billy Childish & Sexton Ming
1914 (2003) Wild Billy Childish & The Buff Medway’s
Medway Wheelers (2005) Wild Billy Childish & The Buff Medway’s

But let's be honest, most of these are shit aren't they...?

wink.gif


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thefrenzexperiment
Posted: May 26 2005, 10:32 AM


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44.....

cry.gif


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ted_trott
Posted: May 26 2005, 10:39 AM


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I own 46 of the above mentioned Billy Childish albums.

Can't believe you say most of these are shit! All are brilliant garage rock/punk (Thee Headcoats)/beat albums (The Milkshakes).
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Gaz
Posted: May 26 2005, 10:52 AM


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Own about 65-70 of the above smile.gif


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Gaz
Posted: May 26 2005, 10:57 AM


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QUOTE (I'm from Salford, Baby @ May 25 2005, 11:52 PM)
Own about 65-70 of the above smile.gif

Just counted - I only own 59 of them... Stuff i'm missings mainly things like 'Smile the best of' and some of the more dodgy reciever outings.


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clayts
Posted: May 26 2005, 11:05 AM


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** cough **


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Gaz
Posted: May 26 2005, 11:10 AM


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QUOTE (clayts @ May 26 2005, 12:05 AM)
** cough **

Is that a bit of spittle or another album?


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But then I took a chase after the Pink Cock Runner...

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Martin
Posted: May 26 2005, 11:10 AM


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Where is the discrepancy? It's late, I've had a beer or three...can't be bothered to work it out...80 or 81?


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clayts
Posted: May 26 2005, 11:13 AM


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I'd actually add this too, because it did come out as an album, as well as a box set of singles wink.gif


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clayts
Posted: May 26 2005, 11:14 AM


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Having said that we're still two out (in Stephen's favour), as my total includes the two solo albums....just checking now...


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clayts
Posted: May 26 2005, 11:18 AM


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D'oh - they're included.

So that's the discrepancy smile.gif

Good stuff - always helpful to reconcile wink.gif


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Martin
Posted: May 26 2005, 11:19 AM


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QUOTE (clayts @ May 26 2005, 01:13 AM)
I'd actually add this too, because it did come out as an album, as well as a box set of singles wink.gif

Haven't got this one either...don't need to. In fact, the only Fall record you need to own is Slates. The rest is paste.


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thefrenzexperiment
Posted: May 27 2005, 02:17 AM


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QUOTE (thefrenzexperiment @ May 26 2005, 10:32 AM)
44.....

cry.gif

Got paid yesterday....up to 47!!

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Martin
Posted: May 27 2005, 03:08 AM


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What's the hardest one to find, by the way? Is there anyone with a story to tell?


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freeranger
Posted: May 27 2005, 03:12 AM


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ohmy.gif i only have 30 off this list! guess i am gonna have to start buying various compilation cd's and live offerings to boost my forum cred!


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Martin
Posted: May 27 2005, 03:17 AM


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No 50 isn't necessary any more, so that's one you can eliminate from any wish list.


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freeranger
Posted: May 27 2005, 03:18 AM


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laugh.gif makes things "slightly" easier for me!


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thefrenzexperiment
Posted: May 27 2005, 03:46 AM


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I reckon The Collection is pretty hard to find. I know it crops up on eBay occasionally, but not that often.

I'd like it for a CD version of 'A Day in the Life', which I think is fantastic.

And Live to Air in Melbourne. I don't ever remember seeing that in Selectadisc. I'm sure it was probably there....Clayts probably got it....!!

And there's one on eBay at the moment....


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snarfyguy
Posted: May 27 2005, 04:23 AM


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QUOTE (thefrenzexperiment @ May 26 2005, 10:46 AM)
I reckon The Collection is pretty hard to find.


I used to have it, but it went missing! cry.gif


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Longsighted
Posted: May 27 2005, 04:44 AM


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Group: Members
Posts: 495
Member No.: 1,599
Joined: 23-March 05



I've got 65 off the list (most of them in my avatar but I picked up Idiot Joy Show and I am Pure as Oranj last week) so my cred is OK. The Collection, Live to Air in Melbourne, etc. - no problem. And I'm a sucker for a cash-in compilation - can't have too many dotted around the house. But I never see the MES solo stuff. Never heard anything of them either. Is it any use? Should I be searching harder?
Also, I only have "Live Various Years" compilation. Not got any of the others with the same sleeve. Recommendations? Ignore or pursue?

Thank you.

EDIT: Obviously I changed my avatar since my original post!


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Looking jolly from Stoke
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