John Cale vs. Lou Reed

Albums I own by them

Cale - The Island Trilogy, Vintage Violence and Paris 1919

Reed - All of them besides a couple of live albums

Lou has done some stinkers (The Raven, Minstral etc) but he's also recorded some of all time fave albums (Berlin, Magic and Loss etc) so he gets my vote.

I like most of lou reed's stuff very much, and he has a very cool way of singing, so that is always a big bonus. with John Cale i find it more a hit and a miss as to if i'll like it. eg. I like vintage violence but i dont like the one with lots of slides on the front [forget what it is called].

John Cale has released a better body of work.
Favourite LP is Slow Dazzle.

Lou is hit and miss. Berlin is top but none of his other LPs are as consistent.

someone should do a

which of the following do you prefer poll?
John Cage
John Cale
JJ Cale
John Coltrane

Nicholas Cage Or maybe Nick Cave

Anyway, had to vote for Cale, tho I have time for Reed...always have trouble telling him from Doug Yule, however...

Paris 1919!
Marvellous!
Lou has done 0 to compare!

Stephen did, in fact, do a "favorite J.C." poll a while back.

Definitely Cale for me. I haven't heard all of either's solo output, but Cale put out a series of really brilliant albums in the '70s and I've never heard one by Reed that I thought was better than pretty good.

Not heard enough Cale to comment, really. Have only just dabbled, with the "Guts" comp (from the local library). There again, I've probably only heard about 5-10% or Reed's!

I think Reeds losing on the grounds of not enough people hearing Cale solo....
If I would've said Velvet Underground included, or even 'whose the better songwriter' he would have stormed home with the victory.... Still early days, though.
I've been playing him a lot latley (You may have guessed) but I'll say this much for him - out of all the artists I got into at a younger age (14-ish) he's the only one I can really go back and listen to often.

This is strange, I'm the exact opposite ... I wouldn't even think of playing a Lou solo LP anymore.

Worse: I have (semi-) turned my back on the VU. I collected it all like the obsessive I am, then left it untouched for years ... came back to it and discovered I have HUGE issues with everything after the first two albums (ok, there are a couple of good tracks on the 3rd album and 1969 Live).

I've always thought that Loaded is pathetic, it's the classic case of an album getting lauded when, if it were by anyone else, it woud have been consigned to the dustbin of history. However, being obsessive, I bought the 2-cd version which is actually WORSE than being just twice as bad!

Actually, what really did it for me was The Quine Tapes set ... what a pile of shite! Most of it's just tenth-rate country rock or totally uninspired rambling nonsense. Three versions of Sister Ray, 1969 style? Isn't there a God somewhere to protect us from this?

Having said all that, I am still daft enough to have bought this week the Japanese 2-cd card sleeve edition of Live 1969 for £20+, which used to be one of my fave LPs but which now sounds half great, half execrable. Dire Straits lifted their whole career from Lisa Says! What Goes On is, however, pure heaven.

For those that care, the Japanese edition sounds a zillion times better than the UK release.

I decided to try Cale's solo stuff so went and bought everything up to Sabotage, because I never do anything sensibly. Some was ok, but a lot of it seemed pretty uninspired, but I'm sure it brightens someone's day. The Eno/Cale album isn't bad, though ...

I'd still vote for Cale solo, though ... I don't usually quote Morrissey but he once remarked that with Lou Reed you have to wait ten years for a good song ... can't say I disagree with him on that, although I might up it to twenty ... or thirty ...

dont like either of them.....

Hear hear, brother

Oh - And the third album is ALL good

Having recently slagged off Lou Reed on another thread, I'm inclined to defend him here. At his best, his songwriting is first rate, and I would even include some tracks off the expanded version of 'Loaded' here, most notably the exhilarating 'Rock and Roll' and the majestic version of 'Ocean'. I also think that 'Berlin' is wonderful - a sustained piece of musical nihilism.

Apart from this notable exception, his solo career has been a serious disappointment. For me, 'Transformer' suffers from terrible production. At least, the CD I owned sounded crap. I would buy this again, though, if it ever received a 'Raw Power' type makeover.

As for the rest? 'Coney Island Baby' is okay and there are some good songs on 'Street Hassle' but even his more critically acclaimed albums like 'New York' are flabby and suffer from poor lyric writing, a failing exacerbated by his tendency to promote himself as a Rock and Roll poet. I'd go into this more if I still had the album but I've flogged it.

The last thing I bought was 'Set The Twilight Reeling'. It has absolutely fantastic production but the lyrics are, once more, cringeworthy ('You Scream, I Scream, We All Want Egg Cream').

Recently I found a VHS tape with a Velvet Underground reunion show and documentary. I couldn't believe how smug and empty they sounded.

Then you have to take into account Reed the person: humourless and arrogant. It shouldn't affect the listening experience but it does.

And yet in spite of this he does mean something. And I actually feel like playing some of his stuff right now. I think I'll start with that Japanese facsimile 2CD version of 1969 referred to above which has remained unplayed since I bought it.

As for Cale, I don't know his solo stuff well enough. But for those interested in him as a person, his ego seems to compete favourably with Reed's, as revealed in the devastating (and funny) portrait of him in 'Songs They Never Play On the Radio'.

Mo Tucker's solo albums are far more interesting than either Reed's or Cale's, not to mention more neglected.

I was over-critical, admittedly, but it has the worst opening track in history - the excruciating, maudlin, only-liked-cos-it's-VU Candy Says - and one of the most spectacularly unsuccessful, self-consciously 'weird' numbers in The Murder Mystery. Ooh Lou, you so CRAZY ... I don't think.

And it's bad enough letting Mo Tucker drum, let alone sing - so After Hours is pretty much irrelevant. (Yes, I'm afraid I am one of at least two or three VU fans who can't ignore the fact that, even though Mo is a woman! looks like a boy! stands up! she is NOT a good drummer ... except when she's keeping a basic beat, eg the heavenly live What Goes On).

But other than that ... the 3rd album is okay!

cale

music for a new society

but like transformer

I've elected not to vote.

I have come to admire a lot of John Cale's stuff again, and more stuff I missed / didn't listen to properly first time around.

I am greatly impressed by a lot of his material, his musical abilities and his vocal style - at times at least.

However, I have also found on re-evaluation some material I liked before to be quite duff (some of the mid 70's stuff, though by no means all of it - for each one I found I disliked got the odd surprise I'd missed before)...and I also still ultimately prefer Lou.

Two greatly talented performers - seems churlish to vote one instead of the other. Respect to both.

ah, but surely it's not how talented you are, it's what you do with the talent you do have?

And the sound you make...yes it's been said 10 million times, but *that* classic Mo drumming sound, can't knock it.

ah, but surely it's not how talented you are, it's what you do with the talent you do have?

And the sound you make...yes it's been said 10 million times, but *that* classic Mo drumming sound, can't knock it.

But she has no talent!!! Liten to Heroin or, even worse, I Heard Her Call My Name: totally ruined by drumming a three-year-old could better!

Bang-bang-bang: yes, she can do that. But other than that, forget it.

This is ok on straightforward rockers etc but I wish Angus MacLise had stayed on, he can't have been any worse.

Sorry, I used to stick up for her years ago til I relaised: why? She IS crap!

I'm sure she loves animals and is nice to old ladies though.

Having said all that, she did ok when I saw 'em in 93.

I had to vote for John Cale for a few reasons. Lou's best stuff is far behind him. I really liked his stuff in the 70's [sally can't dance, coney island baby, berlin] after those few decent lps in the 80's... who knows what he was doing? I mean Lou has been playing guitar for 40+ years (he's worse than robert smith)! and he still blows chunks as a guitarist! I mean really dreadful, no style at all - They were both good with the 'songs for drella'. John Cale seems to have gotten better with time. John can play piano for anyone. ta

I like it all... Both... Reed done a coupla turkeys in his time tho but people make mistakes... Cale has done some shite too... I cant listen to Honi Soit coz it makes me cringe.... whereas Dying On The Vine is one of the best songs ever written...
I like Loaded... its pure powerful pop...

I love the Velvet Underground, but hate Lou Reed.

Saw John Cale live last year. He was phenomenal.

And there we have it, in black and white... no arguing with statistics.

Yeah, the same statistics that voted MMM as Lou's best.

I think part of being a fallfan is being contrary bastard sometimes. Folks vote for the shittiest album coz voting for a popular one would just be too predictable.

Y'all know deep in ur hearts that Lou wins it by a country mile.

Yeah, the same statistics that voted MMM as Lou's best.

I think part of being a fallfan is being contrary bastard sometimes. Folks vote for the shittiest album coz voting for a popular one would just be too predictable.

Y'all know deep in ur hearts that Lou wins it by a country mile.

I will resarect the poll and cast my vote ~ maybe for Coney Island Baby, as thats bloody worse than MMM by a long stretch!

Another vote for Mr L Reed, the true genius behind the Velvet Underground.
Take a vote on the wild side.