Condemn Grub, Voting Ends: in November 7th

Condemn Grub

A resolution to express shock and dismay at a nation or region.


Category: Condemnation


Nominee: Grub


Proposed by: Daynor

Description:
The World Assembly,

DEFINING a region crasher as a nation which attacks a region with the intent to utterly destroy the community,

ASSERTING that region crashing is not only a threat to the natives of the region, but also to those raiders who do not crash regions, because it eliminates one founderless region from the game,

DEFINING an empire builder as a nation who attacks a region in order to plant its own region’s name on the World Factbook Entry of the target region,

ASSERTING that empire builders embarrass and harass the natives of a region, and often end up crashing the target region,

NOTING that Grub behaved as both a region crasher and an empire builder while carrying out the abominations in Empire of Power,

SHOCKED that Grub attacked and destroyed the region Empire of Power because of a personal grudge,

OUTRAGED that Empire of Power, a region with over 175 members, was destroyed by such cruel and unjust practices,

HORRIFIED that Grub has held Empire of Power prisoner for over six years,

SICKENED by the bragging and gloating present on the Regional Message Board and World Factbook Entry designed to harass and torment the former natives,

ANGERED that Grub has created an army of ‘defenders’ to prevent others from committing the same atrocities the nation of Grub has committed,

RECOGNIZING that by creating this army, Grub is admitting the monstrous offenses committed in Empire of Power were undoubtedly wrong,

OBSERVING that Grub has done nothing to atone for its actions, or remedy the situation by giving the region back to its former natives,

CONDEMNS the nation of Grub for its part in the wicked destruction and immoral occupation of Empire of Power.

I´m against because from what i read in the WA forum (as i didn´t knew Grub or EoP), it seems that while Grub might have attacked EoP years ago as part of the defenderxraider conflict, the region died by itself later, and then current EoP was re-founded by him. So there is no natives to be harrassed, freed or given back their region.

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=23216 is the link to the WA forum thread where we can see a few supporting the thread, because Grub is said to be a destroyer of raider regions and most split between being against it either because Grub is said to be innocent of the resolution accusations or because they dislike C&C resolutions as a whole or because they want the defenderxraider war out of WA or because this is all said to be 10000islands propaganda.

Unless we want to condemn Hitler I don't see any point in condemning anyone or anything. Tis just a game.

Kay, you have my vote on condemn Hitler. He sure deserved one...

But regarding C&C, i see no trouble as the condemnation and commendations are just part of the game as well, is not as it had any consequence on RL.

I understand and was waiting for this kind of response.

*puts on his commander hat*

There is no point in condemning these bastards, because after the resolution passes, someone will want to reverse the condemnation. If we really hate these bastards, we need to show them with sheer, unadulterated force.

We must crush them so hard, we turn into them diamonds.

*takes off his commander hat*
*puts on his Leader hat*

Personally, I don't see any reason to pick a side and this is why I am AGAINST this resolution.

Well, i don´t think Grub really deserve the condemnation... Or to be crushed. Although if he is, i´ll sell the diamonds for a profit

But i agree that condemnations are a weak punishment as one can try repealing it forever...
Well, banning people from the game is harsher and more permanent, but is a power that i think it should stay in NS mods hand alone (one can always alert them if someone is truly wicked on its behavior, anyway).

I like where this is going. Grub does not deserve a condemnation. The resolution exaggerates his abilities. And it lies. He is neither powerful enough nor evil enough for this.

I'm sure you could be arranged to get a cut. Maybe larger if I get access to their oil reserves.

During the timeline of the alleged region-destruction, the now-defunct griefing rules were in play. Had Grub done the act that the Resolution alleges, he would have been deleted by the mods. He was not, ergo he did not. Numerous corroborating accounts exist that Daynor's story is fictitious and I'm pleased to see that the WA body has treated it as it deserves.

I cant stand these Commend and Condemn, its just one great childish to and fro

For that reason, I'm out

AGAINST

It´s a deal. You can have the oil field, Kurd! So Grub might be innocent, but he still gets to be crushed into diamonds...

Against

AGAINST

I would like everyone to bear in mind that I am a staunch Raider/Invader and always will be, and I have no particular love of Grub. I personally think that it's inconsistent to forceably "liberate" FJ and not do the exact same thing to EoP which has been held shut 3 times longer. I personally think if it happened in 2003 AND IS STILL HAPPENING TODAY it is reasonable and consistent to do something about it today.

BUT this resolution is not about that. It's about condemning one nation. I just work hard on a repeal for a whole region and that repeal was all about consistency and WA neutrality, and it would be inconsistent to vote for this condemn. The WA does not need to be either condemning or commending a nation unless they specific benefit the NS game as a whole (like Kandarin) or harm the NS game as a whole (like Lord Alph). Further, I don't know who the author is, but I do know he's not a raider I've known or invaded with, so from what I can see the reason this was written was out of something like spite or vengeance. As I said, do I "like" Grub? Nope we are on opposing sides and unlike some of my other fenda friends, I don't particularly think he's honorable or consistent. But he has not harmed the NS game as a whole and thus there is no basis to support this resolution if the very consistent raider message is: THE WA SHOULD BE NEUTRAL.

I also hope that the people of 10k Islands realize that a vote AGAINST this Condemn does NOT mean we support the nation Grub nor the region crashing of EoP or Marijuana Militia which were both raped and locked down for YEARS.

No it means that, at least on the raider side, we believe in the principles we espouse AND that we would even apply them to our enemy. If it is inconsistent for the WA to be commending a region for just doing part of the NS game, it is equally inconsistent for the WA to condemn a nation. The principles we would apply equally to all--raider and defender alike--would be neutrality in the WA neither commending nor condemning either side of the battlefield which are legal according to the rules of the game; and if a region such as Feudal Japan is "liberated" ...then ANY region whose original inhabitants were all banned and ejected, the region was locked down and no one was allowed to enter, the region died and was refounded and sat like that for years... should ALSO be liberated. In other words, don't tell us that "region crashing is bad" if you're a raider but it's "freedom fighting" if you're a defender. We see through that. Apply the same principles equally to all...not just some.

So don't be mistaken. We are NOT voting "for" 10k Islands. We are voting against being inconsistent and unequal--even to our enemies.

The former has only been locked down for a year

Also, watch who you're speaking for there, you acknowledge that you've had no dealings with the author and that they are a raider but then proceed to list off the raider position by giving us your opinion but calling it "we". Probably best you just speak for yourself and let other speak for themselves.

But as for the content of your post

P.S. Why is that smiley coded as Todd!

I think our admins had a lot of time ... there are hundreds of "upcoming calendar events" as well...and I've never heard of most of them

*hands drakkengard some crushed Zetaone diamonds*

Okay you have a good point about saying "this is my personal opinion" and will be more clear to identify when it is an opinion and when it is something I've discussed with other raider generals and leaders and it is a more formal position.

However, there is one thing I'd like to make clear or point out. I wrote:

I do not know and have never heard of, known of, or raided with the author of the resolution. I'm not saying I know every single raider in NationStates, because clearly I don't, but I know of lots of people who know of people and I have no idea who this author is--so I'm not in a position to definitively say if they claim to be a raider or not. What I do know: I've been around raider circles awhile, and they aren't that I know of!

Look, all we want is their oil. Drak gets a 10% cut of the diamonds. Is anyone else in the raping and pillaging this guy?

I did re-read this though, good points above by Vacationer.

Just remember that there are many self-defined raiders who play the game but haven't necessarily raided for up to 6 years.

But that point is by the by, this resolution is pants.

Agreed! LOL

Last Decision

The resolution "Condemn Grub" was defeated 4,807 votes to 1,272.

But we get our oil and diamonds anyway...

Exactly!

Wow, they're some special pants