Title: The Burning Fist Technique
Description: A traditional Jing Technique
Vandon - February 22, 2003 02:37 AM (GMT)
To my amazement, I noticed that the University's section on Jing was missing my favorite technique: The Force Fist. Here goes...
TECHNIQUE: FORCE FIST
1. Ground yourself and focus on the energy in your arms. Pulse Ki (to add physcial speed) into your arms.
2. Now, focus on the Jing in your arms. Traditionally, Jing has been considered a physical manifestation of Ki, so it can be moved just like Ki. Push some Jing into your balled up fist, tensing your arms to help move it.
3. Now, relax your arms.
4. Decide on a target.
5. Punch, performing a Jing Blast on impact.
Just a quick note, a traditional exercise to improve this technique has been to light a candle and then punch the air nearby the flame (NOT THE FLAME ITSELF! THAT HURTS!) and try to put it out. Start at a few inches away, move up to a few feet. Well, I probably left something out, so please post any questions and until next time I am,
RyuKishi - February 22, 2003 03:40 AM (GMT)
That is straight from the depths of MysteryShadow's brain.
Amgard - February 22, 2003 04:42 AM (GMT)
Technically, wouldn't the forced air from the punch probably put out the candle itself? :blink:
Kagemusha DM - February 22, 2003 03:38 PM (GMT)
Why do all that to put out a candle? I can blow a candle out by merely punching it regularly without the aid of chi.
I assume the candle is for testing purposes, I just thought I'd bring up the that little tidbit of info in case someone punched it regularly, and thought they were using jing. To really test your jing, try to knock a coke can over.
Vandon - February 23, 2003 12:44 AM (GMT)
Several questions... first of all, RyuKishi: who is MysteryShadow?....
Secondly, BeerJedi... a palmstrike (due to the increased surface area) might generate enough air movement to put out a flame, but believe me, I tried many times before to put out a candle using my a standard martial arts reverse punch (the most powerful strike in most MAs) without much success. Using Jing, it becomes somewhat easy.
The Coke can test sounds interesting, Kagemusha... full or empty?
Kagemusha DM - February 23, 2003 01:06 AM (GMT)
Whichever. I myself haven't worked with jing yet.
Vivi Kame - February 23, 2003 03:15 PM (GMT)
If i ever get good enough at jing(i suck), i'll try the candle...
RyuKishi - February 24, 2003 11:18 PM (GMT)
MysteryShadow was one of the first, if not the first, and most pathetic DBZers. He created that lame tech and gave it it's name.... however that tech was meant to be used so you could learn the big bad Burning Fist... Anyway! No offense but you must not be that strong if you can't make a candle stable without the use of energy. I probally had some more things to say but I really need Dr. Pepper.
Vandon - February 25, 2003 02:16 AM (GMT)
It is possible that the term 'Force Fist' was used to name the technique I mentioned, if so, I obviously apologize to the person whom I accidently stole the name from. However, the technique is real, I assure you--though the name is somewhat fantastic, the technique is straight out of Chen Style Tajiquan (Tai Chi). This is not the healing Tai Chi that is practiced by most people in this country, it basically operates by reversing the principles of healing Tai Chi and reversing the cycle of creation from acupuncture to make a rather effective martial art.
On another note, I am a 1st degree brown belt in Kenpo Karate--for my examination to reach that belt I had to shatter a concrete brick with a knifehand strike. So I would argue that I am reasonably strong. And I got the candle technique from a very legitimate martial arts site-dragonslist.com I think it was, go to articles. Somewhere in there is an article entitled "Candle training in Chinese Martial Arts" or something similar, and it lists several uses for candles, such as meditation and building Jing in the method I described.
As a final note, I am certainly not a DBZer in the sense you are speaking of. I'm not claiming to be able to destroy cities, knock down huge trees with my fists, or fly away into the sunset whenever I so desire. This is, as I have stated, a legitimate technique from traditional Chinese martial arts--not the invention of a drunk kid in a college dorm room. I probally had some more things to say but I really need Vanilla Coke (better than Dr. Pepper in my humble opinion).
Kagemusha DM - February 25, 2003 10:22 PM (GMT)
(just so you know IBC Root beer owns all soda drinks)
That's all for now, stay tuned for more information.
Kaiou Lei - February 27, 2003 12:12 AM (GMT)
Hm...I was thinking. When I saw that "think of the jing in your arms,"...it made me realize that jing must also be already flowing throughout your body, just like your ki. Though obviously, is much harder to control. Maybe you don't have to actually "generate" it, maybe you just have to learn how to bring it out. Any thoughts?
Kujila - February 27, 2003 12:25 AM (GMT)
Personally, I stick with the original theory of jung bering compressed KI,... ;)
Kagemusha DM - February 27, 2003 10:20 PM (GMT)
Well I don't think that we can rule out the possibility of at least some ki that is around us being already materialized. As to whether or not jing is already flowing through our bodies, I don't know, but again, it isn't impossible or even improbable.
DonkeyofDoom - February 28, 2003 12:08 AM (GMT)
i doubt jing is compressed ki but i believe it is either a different energy or B) CONCENTRATED B) ki
Willbo118 - February 28, 2003 02:43 AM (GMT)
Heh, I might try that when I can do more then shake a can. Empty BTW. Sounds like a good test, but I need to start training before I can consider that, like being able to shake a full can. :lol: . That's my 2 cents..... wait... 1 cent, I can't afford to give you 2.
Raenor - March 9, 2003 06:24 AM (GMT)
Actually Kagemusha A&W Root Beer owns all sodas :D . But more to the topic, make sure when your trying to knock the soda can over that theres no wind :D .
Kagemusha DM - March 9, 2003 03:07 PM (GMT)
A&W would own all sodas if it came in a glass bottle like IBC, but it doesn't. I rest my case.
Another Jing experiment: get a glass of water and see if you can disturb the water in the glass (But if you see ripples followed by a thudding, then it's time to bust out those T-Rex tranquilizers :blink: )
Garvonis - March 10, 2003 01:38 AM (GMT)
Lmfao! Yea, make sure you don't give it the wrong surum crap, it might turn into a locomotive and rampage the entire city... :lol: :lol: :huh: :o :ph43r:
Amgard - March 11, 2003 11:55 PM (GMT)
|I assume the candle is for testing purposes, I just thought I'd bring up the that little tidbit of info in case someone punched it regularly, and thought they were using jing. To really test your jing, try to knock a coke can over.|
Well, that's true, but you can't determine how effective the technique was if your fist could probably do it itself?
kaiphotos - March 19, 2003 10:59 PM (GMT)
Vandon: What Martial Art are you (or have you) been taking? The reverse punch is one of the first, original, simpilest and sadly weakest punch in the Martial Arts. I have blown out a candle light with my fist without JING as an assistant (with a back fist and palm heel).
On the subject of this "burning jing fist", I would like to know of what tradition this 'traditional' technique was founded and where Beerjedi learned it. Does anyone know?
Jing, as I've learned it is more of an explosion or transfere of energy that has been stored and saturated for a time. An example would be of tightening your muscles to block blood veins and then releasing and sensing the flow of oxygen, adreneline, endorphines, testosterone, ect. again; all rushing through your circulatory system.
Ki, howevere, MUST flow if it is to remain ki, and is to remain clean. Sustained ki, the kind that sits in your system like a liquid in an open glass will taint.
In China chi means breath or air. A century ago they did not know why or what they breathed only that breathing meant life, and when breathing stopped so did life! In Japan it is the same, but they both amount to power. You breath in you take life itself into your body, the only real power that could enable life. From this breathing methods and focus came into importance. Never staying still, life is change therefore you cannot stay sustained, and neither can Ki, Chi, Qi, Prana, Breath, Water, Light, Power.
Kagemusha DM - March 20, 2003 09:15 PM (GMT)
Actually you can be without breath and technically still be alive. Of course, I am referring to cryogenics, and absolute zero. Absolute zero is basically a temperature so cold that all things stop. This temperature has been tried to be reached in labs, but as of late, absolute zero has not been reached (scientists have come incredibly close though).
kaiphotos - March 20, 2003 10:55 PM (GMT)
Absolute zero is the obsolete state of matter. Nothing living could survive in it, and absolute zero cannot be attained on Earth, or any place that has physical connection to another state of matter. It is the ONLY state that no energy exists (heat). Also meaning that your theory has never been tested. The only way I can think of is if some living object were to be exposed to the outer space. Of course, that would be hard because with the nearest particle existing on the closest planet, debries, star, ext., the living being would be cooked first since the adhearing temperatures drop at the dissplacement of matter, and the beings body would be say, 98.6 degrees Ferinheight! For a human that is.
Kagemusha DM - March 21, 2003 09:11 PM (GMT)
Actually it's just a complete hault of everything. This isn't my theory per se; this theory is already widely accepted by scientists and researchers.
Vandon - March 23, 2003 12:45 AM (GMT)
Actually, the reverse punch is the strongest stationary punch possibly in my art (Kenpo Karate, of which I am a 1st degree brown belt). A flying or running punch is stronger, but I'm not sure where you get the idea that a reverse punch is the 'weakest' punch. You're quite mistaken: the weakest striking technique is a jab, which is fast but weak. Also, as I think I mentioned before (if I didn't, I meant to), it is quite simple to put out a candle with a palm heel strike, since the greater surface area = greater movement of air = air to put out candle. The reason I suggested a reverse punch is because that exposes the minimum surface to air movement (excepting spearhand).
ps Burning Fist is from some form of Kung Fu, don't recall it off the top of my head but I can look it up if you really want. However, the technique I described actually isn't the burning fist (I was going to post burning fist, but decided to post force fist instead without changing the heading). If you want me to post burning fist, I can do that to, though it would go in the Ki area, not the Jing area.
kaiphotos - March 28, 2003 04:45 PM (GMT)
I took Shotokan Karate for a short time. I meant no offence (just to be sure). The reason I said weakest was because I have seen punches that can generate many times greater force as well as speed than a reverse punch. One for example is the Wing-Chun punch. My favorites are the Tai Kick-Boxers punch and the Jeet Kune Do punches. There is a great book called 'The Power Behing The Punch' that compared the different punches.
The revers punch, if we are refering to the same, comes from the hip or in some schools the under arm. Most of the force generated comes from the revolution of the forearm and collision of the knuckles (whichever the sifus' tell you to use) against the target. In Jeet Kune Do, the punch is on the center line of the body, stays there the entire life of the punch, includes force from the turning of the hips and major joints, and also brings the weight off the toes (not off the ground) and into the target. This causes maximum force.
I also realized that when I positioed myself in a front or back stance for a reverse puch my gaurd was way open. You can keep your reverse punch as your "STYLE'S" most powerful grounded punch, but I will look for improvement in all my attack and defences. This is what I found out and that is why I said it. I, again, have no intention of changing anyone's mind.
Yes of course I would like to know of what form of Kung-fu you learned this interesting attack. What is it called if it is not this "burning Fist"? If you do write up the actual attack please tell me where you'll post it.
Vandon - April 6, 2003 02:14 AM (GMT)
My apologies for not responding more promptly. I have the information you requested: according to various posters at Dragonslist.com, the Burning Fist is another name for a technique from the 'Red Flower Fist Set' style of Wing Chun Kung Fu.
On your reverse punch: I agree the Shotokan reverse punch can be weak, but the Kenpo punch isn't. Kenpo Karate actually isn't Karate at all; its a form of 'Shaolin Boxing' (similar to Shaolin Kung Fu). Just to review a reverse punch in Kenpo:
Start in a side stance of some sort
Chamber rear fist at waist.
Do the following:
punch with rear fist
lift off your legs and throw yourself into the punch
pull back front arm
at last moment, twist arm, turn shoulder, and connect with two knuckles
make sure to employ anchoring (keeping fist close to body)
Well, not quite everything, but close enough. As you can see--quite strong.
kaiphotos - April 6, 2003 09:26 PM (GMT)
Thankyou Vandon, I'll look at that site and the Fist Set. I still dissagree that the reverse punch is one of the strongest, the one you described is the same one that I was talking about, but I am glad to have another's opinion. All forms of Karate are desendants of Kung-fu martial art forms, (which is not actually a martial art, some Chinese have called Yo-yo Ma the Kung-fu master of the Cello. It means "well done" in some rough translations) but I have almost given up completly on the idea of "style" or "form".
I think that the reverse punch is way too open and does not tap into the full potential of a punch.
Vandon - April 7, 2003 01:51 AM (GMT)
Incidently, arguably all martial arts are descended from Kung Fu (some say MAs appeared in India and a few TKD practioners say Korea, but my money's on China).
I suppose the reverse punch does leave you open a bit while you're executing the technique, but your opponent would have to have very fast reflexes to block your attack and then counterattack. You could, I suppose, do it, but then again almost every technique has one weakness. There are no perfect techniques, alas, nor perfect martial arts. However, I think that 'no style' systems have disadvantages too. You have to expend large amounts of time to learn the best from each style, and even then there's no guarantee that you can string the techniques you've gotten together well. Someone I know once tried to combine the kicks from TKD and the punches from Karate, along with Judo and Jiu-jitsu in an attempt to make the 'ultimate' fighting system. What he ended up with was a mess. Whenever anyone attacked him, he had to consider which of his horde of techniques to use. Better to know 2-3 and do them well than know 10-20 and not know them well.
kaiphotos - April 7, 2003 03:07 AM (GMT)
That is mostly true, I suppose that all Aisian Martial Arts are decendants of Kung-fu.
You have me mistaken Vandon, I do not wish to biuld, I wish to downgrade to the most effective techniques for my self. I have no wish to master any art form, just to study its strengths and weaknesses as described in the Book of Five Rings. I imagine that, that 'someone' used a great amount of techniques that he saw were useful for other people, not particularly for himself. For my self, I have found less mechanical movements than when I was in Shotokan, and for me they work much better.
Have you ever tried a Jeet Kune Do punch, or a Thai kickboxer's punch?
I do not want to be known under a style or system, I want to be known as a master of my own application of martial art, and an expert at the art of expressing the human self.
Showerman - April 12, 2003 03:54 AM (GMT)
I think you have an ok point. i have seen this before.Unlike the other people who get their ki from DBZ.
Ps. I blew yet another hole threw the moon. Number four.
kaiphotos - April 13, 2003 11:39 PM (GMT)
DonkeyofDoom - April 14, 2003 12:14 AM (GMT)
i still dont really care
#6 REGISTER BOOOOOOOOHYA!!!
kaiphotos - April 17, 2003 01:57 PM (GMT)
May I ask what you do not really care about?
Kaiou Lei - April 25, 2003 01:03 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Kagemusha DM @ Feb 25 2003, 05:22 PM)|
| (just so you know IBC Root beer owns all soda drinks)|
That's all for now, stay tuned for more information.
Yeah, he's right...It just..tastes so much better out of a glass bottle. But ANYWAY...
Vandon - Did you write that technique yourself, or did you get it from somewhere? I will put it up on the site but I need to know who to give credit to and if I have to ask anyone permission to use it on my site. I don't want anyone yelling at me to take it down if they have it copyrighted or something.
Tetra - April 25, 2003 05:56 PM (GMT)
Vandon - April 26, 2003 12:01 AM (GMT)
Master Kaiou Lei:
You can of course post the tech on your site, but let me rewrite it a bit. I'll PM you the revised version (I wrote it a bit on the fly and it isn't quite what I wanted). (Incidently, I did write it on my own. But wait... earlier, some gentlemen named 'RyuKishi' claimed Force Fist was made my some other gentlemen named 'MysteryShadow...' so if the names the issue I'll give it another name).
kaiphotos - April 29, 2003 02:31 PM (GMT)
I would like to see this technique on the regular site.
Kagemusha DM - April 30, 2003 09:14 PM (GMT)
What? It is does taste better...
kaiphotos - May 1, 2003 06:59 PM (GMT)
Vic - July 27, 2003 03:39 PM (GMT)
ok that was a bit okward now wasnt it